news culture. if you sit here -- if i sit here and say to you, harold, you know, there's been a great deal of misunderstanding about mitt romney, and it's probably romney's own fault, but he's kind of a nice guy, you get lit up. >> right. >> these people, what do you mean, he's a nice guy? you know, if you say that about the president, you know, he's a good guy. you get lit up. you're going to get lit up either way. >> it results in a misunderstanding, understandably because people are used to one-on-one interviews. and they expect -- some people expected this debate to be kind of simultaneous one-on-one interviews. and i would ask the president this question, and i would ask that question, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. but that's, as you say, that's not what this is about. this was about those candidates. >> so jim, this was your 12th debate. you've written about debates. >> i have. >> you got that from 41, bush 41. >> that's right. >> who actually said the debates, and he didn't like them. >> he hated them. >> he said i'm not good at them.